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Imbalance in the force(s)...?
http://forum.pulp-city.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1020
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Author:  pulpcitizen [ Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Imbalance in the force(s)...?

Nothing serious, but just for the interest of debate about future plans, but I thought I would count up currently available supremes. As I read things we have:

Supremes by level and side:
Heroes - 16 supremes
- level 1: 5
- level 2: 9
- level 3: 2

Villains - 14 supremes
- level 1: 6
- level 2: 6
- level 3: 2

Hero/Villains - 8 supremes
- level 1: 4
- level 2: 4
- level 3: 0

Totals supremes:
- level 1: 15
- level 2: 19
- level 3: 4

38 supremes



And for origins:
Heroes - 16 supremes
- Mystery: 6
- Nature: 3
- Science: 7

Villains - 14 supremes
- Mystery: 6
- Nature: 2
- Science: 6

Hero/Villains - 8 supremes
- Mystery: 1
- Nature: 3
- Science: 4

Totals supremes:
- Mystery: 13
- Nature: 8
- Science: 17



So do we need more Hero/Villains and a couple more Villains (especially level 1's), and more Nature supremes (given the balance of the origins triad for resolving ties)?

Any thoughts or discussion?


EDIT: numbers adjusted for the November 2009 releases.

Author:  Morf [ Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Imbalance in the force(s)...?

Interesting! I assume the priority is Level 1's at the moment, and I promise a plenty soon.

Author:  pulpcitizen [ Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Imbalance in the force(s)...?

Morf wrote:
Interesting! I assume the priority is Level 1's at the moment, and I promise a plenty soon.


I think the balance shifts in levels are just down to the still-growing nature of the core range. With the advent of the elemental supremes, we saw 4 levels 2's in packs of 2 for what was the first time, wasn't it? I am sure you guys will have things turned around in November (I guess Nuclear Jones is level 1) - I look forwrd to buying more metal goodness then. :D

Author:  Invader Larb [ Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Imbalance in the force(s)...?

Nuclear Jones is a level 2.

Some of the relases early next year will fill in the ranks.

Author:  Scorpio [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Imbalance in the force(s)...?

I was noticing there weren't too many Nature supremes out there, thanks for doing the math.

Author:  pulpcitizen [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Imbalance in the force(s)...?

Scorpio wrote:
I was noticing there weren't too many Nature supremes out there, thanks for doing the math.


Arguably the lack of Nature surpremes probably gives a slight advanatge to Science supremes and a comparable slight disadvantage to Mystery supremes when considered as a whole.

Of course that hypothesis can only be tested with all variables accounted for (games sizes, team compositions, individual stat variations etc), so probably can't really be proved or disproved (unless someone wants to give that a try... :) ), but it is a consideration.

If seeking a team with fairly balanced origins that is certainly possible, it just remains for the time being that Nature is more limited. But in Morf and the Pulp Monsters crew I trust. :D

Author:  Beermonkey [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Imbalance in the force(s)...?

Hey I did my part to add to the Nature roster last time out! Besides with all Science Supremes out there it makes Father Oak all the more valuable. For a fun nature team my current favorite is Father Oak, Acorn, Solar, and Harrier. Some really nice synergies and combos and against a Science heavy team they really do some damage. If you have a chance try these guys out, fun little Nature team.

Author:  pulpcitizen [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Imbalance in the force(s)...?

Beermonkey wrote:
Hey I did my part to add to the Nature roster last time out! Besides with all Science Supremes out there it makes Father Oak all the more valuable. For a fun nature team my current favorite is Father Oak, Acorn, Solar, and Harrier. Some really nice synergies and combos and against a Science heavy team they really do some damage. If you have a chance try these guys out, fun little Nature team.


I have just finished Solar and Harrier (both in the last few days) and Father Oak and Acorn are undercoated (along with...let me just count...16 others awaiting painting, and 12 PC minis - some dupes - in various stages of completion), so I will try out that line-up sooner or later.

Your Father Oak has inspired me to look at working on a potential SG 4 entry (working on the assumption we will have an SG 4).

Author:  Beermonkey [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Imbalance in the force(s)...?

Oh I'm sure we will. What the theme will be is another question entirely. At any rate I'm just thrilled to see people using and enjoying Oak & Acorn. I love them but then I'm biased.

Author:  pulpcitizen [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Imbalance in the force(s)...?

Beermonkey wrote:
Oh I'm sure we will. What the theme will be is another question entirely. At any rate I'm just thrilled to see people using and enjoying Oak & Acorn. I love them but then I'm biased.


Bias is understandable. :D

That said although there are excellent Nature supremes about, they could do with a little more variety.

Author:  BountyhunterQ [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Imbalance in the force(s)...?

I was kind of lukewarm on Oak and Acorn at first. . . after seeing them in person and getting a few games in with them, they are nuts! (pun intended, obviously) :lol: These two are very aggressive game changers if played properly.

They are a tough duo and as pointed out in Acorn's profile page, she's pretty rough on her own. The Tree-huggers are pretty awesome, as well. I just need to find myself some nice hippies for the minions. . . maybe use some fantasy dryads in the meantime?

As far as an imbalance in the origins, I would hate to see the forces all be equal. I think after a time, that might dilute the experience of Pulp City. I think this kind of happened in Warmachine when each faction began to get similar units with each expansion. Great, we all get cavalry, great- everyone gets a dragoon. . . it seems like that has changed with the new expansion, but for a long time it seemed like the only thing separating the new units was the color of paint you put on the model. Perhaps having a few less Nature based supremes lends a hand to showing just how powerful Mother Nature truly is? :mrgreen:

Author:  pulpcitizen [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Imbalance in the force(s)...?

BountyhunterQ wrote:
I was kind of lukewarm on Oak and Acorn at first. . . after seeing them in person and getting a few games in with them, they are nuts! (pun intended, obviously) :lol: These two are very aggressive game changers if played properly.

They are a tough duo and as pointed out in Acorn's profile page, she's pretty rough on her own. The Tree-huggers are pretty awesome, as well. I just need to find myself some nice hippies for the minions. . . maybe use some fantasy dryads in the meantime?

As far as an imbalance in the origins, I would hate to see the forces all be equal. I think after a time, that might dilute the experience of Pulp City. I think this kind of happened in Warmachine when each faction began to get similar units with each expansion. Great, we all get cavalry, great- everyone gets a dragoon. . . it seems like that has changed with the new expansion, but for a long time it seemed like the only thing separating the new units was the color of paint you put on the model. Perhaps having a few less Nature based supremes lends a hand to showing just how powerful Mother Nature truly is? :mrgreen:


Fair points, but arguably the down side is a lack of breadth of choices as a consequence, thus seeing the same Nature choices as 'no-brainers'. I think the distinction is that not all supremes of a given origin are the same, nor do they all operate the same, and nor do they simply duplicate chocies in the other factions (Hero, Villain, Hero/Villain). Thus I don't think the Warmachine analogy is entirely correct, even if I can see the concern your raise.

To put it another way, with greater choices of Mystery and Science supremes do they suffer the problem you highlight with your Warmachine analogy?

Author:  BountyhunterQ [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Imbalance in the force(s)...?

Fair enough, Leon, I see what you are saying here. . . after feeling "burned" by having to share some of my favorite Khador themes to other factions, I may be just a bit sceptical. You make a good point.

Author:  pulpcitizen [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Imbalance in the force(s)...?

BountyhunterQ wrote:
Fair enough, Leon, I see what you are saying here. . . after feeling "burned" by having to share some of my favorite Khador themes to other factions, I may be just a bit sceptical. You make a good point.


I am sure Morf and crew (including guys like you!) will ensure that Pulp City is a long way from ever falling into a trap of same-ness. :D

Author:  Invader Larb [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Imbalance in the force(s)...?

I'll add that Father Oak plus solar can be pretty nasty. Touch of the Sun gives Father Oak +1 on all opposed rolls, which helps both offensively and defensively. They make a nice team. I've played them together several times.

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