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<  Supreme Genesis  ~  Supreme Genesis: Rise of the Dark Solar UPDATE PAGE 3

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:58 pm
User avatarMinister of PulpPosts: 2027Location: Street FightingJoined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:13 pm
CHAPTER 1: CONCEPTING

So you?ve decided. I?m glad you will help me to destroy Johann?s life and build it back again.

Here are some of mine random musings. Bring all of your thoughts on the potential box contents, Solar?s story, powers. My thoughts are just a sketch.


My idea was to give Solar a whole new life.
In addition to keeping his Level 2 profile, I?d like to include his darker side when Ahau Kin takes over ? Avatar of Jaguar. This would be a truly villainous incarnation with animalistic fury and blood thirst. More combat oriented, shadow dweller. A Level 2 Villain.

Then, a Level 3 Dark Solar, when Johann realizes that the moon and the sun faces of Ahau Kin are equally a part of him. He is a Hero/Villain with some extreme solitary longings, not really a leader or a leader of a particular agenda. Still a Forgotten hater.
Strict moral conduct or maybe rules that take him from the edge of the light to the edge of the night and back. A powerhouse and a hazard ? when he punishes his allies.

Stalker, I had that creature in my head for a long time. Initially I even thought about him being a part of the starter set. Imagine a talking jaguar adorned with Mayan/Aztec inspired head piece and maybe some paw bracers (claw blades). Solar?s conscience, his friend, willing to follow him anywhere. Just and righteous but able to let out the animal fury out.

Box content:
New Solar miniature: not much has changed, other than he is not a peacefully floating spandex goody doer. He is raging with fists clenched, about to blast all of his enemies. There is fury in his eyes, grimace on his face.

MAYBE an alternate head with slightly feline feautures. MAYBE a whole new mini of the Avatar of Jaguar. A cat warrior giving in to the bloodthirst.

Stalker ? a jaguar (spotted or black?) prowling down on a ruined temple bit.

Cards for Dark Solar (HV), Avatar of Jaguar (V), Stalker (HV but only in Villain teams if with Solar), Ahau Kin?s Tiara.

Let?s give it two weeks to discuss, then, I?ll have James work on the new Solar mini and ask Marek or Vicente for concepts of Stalker and possible Avatar of Jaguar bitz. In the meantime, we?ll work on rules.



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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 4:08 pm
User avatarHeraldPosts: 725Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:25 pm
Well, as long as it doesn't look too much like superman : the dark side, I'm all in...



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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 4:53 pm
User avatarHeraldPosts: 947Location: Frankfort, KentuckyJoined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:18 pm
I really like the whole avatar of the jaguar thing. I also think that a complete re-scupt will be necessary to pull off the tranformation, a very aggressive and menacing looking figure.



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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 7:19 pm
User avatarHeraldPosts: 725Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:25 pm
...and a new awesome resin base as well ;)



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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 8:27 pm
User avatarGuardian of PulpPosts: 4526Location: House of Jade LanternsJoined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:16 am
Okay, free-thinking time:

I'd love a set of 4 minis. Current Solar, Avatar of the Jaguar Solar and the Dark Solar (lvl 3)/ balanced version, as well as Stalker. That Dark Solar mini with a choice of two heads (human and feral-like alternative) sounds perfect: allow the hobbyist to choose which way his or her Dark Solar leans more....


What I would really like to see is this storyline reflected in the cards included. Now this might be asking a lot, and I know we don't get agenda cards in the current boxes, but what about some agenda cards to be included to reflect each of the three inacarnations? It would add to the overhead costs i know since there would already be at least (I imagine) 3-6 cards already for the character incarnations, but it would emphasize the storyline aspect of the package.



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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 12:51 am
User avatarMortalPosts: 40Location: Boston, MAJoined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:55 am
I'm really digging the concept of Dark Solar, especially wherein he can be equaly dangerous to his allies and his enemies (the powerful loner unable or unwilling to fully control his powers or able to discern friend from foe when enraged).

One ruleset possibility I was thinking about to represent this could be some manner in which control over him is given to both players in turn.

The simplest way to do this, of course, would be to simply let both players control him when it is their turn, as if he were a member of that team of supremes. This will have balance issues, though, as only one player will have paid to take him, and even if there are benefits specific to that player, the second player could always just maneuver Dark Solar into position to better destroy him with his other figs.

Instead, I was thinking that maybe his most powerful (or all) exclusive actions could have specific drawbacks, but that would be specifically damaging to his controller's other supremes. We already have many examples of supremes that damage friend as well as foe passively (such as some area effects, or Ace of Wraith's Team Power), but I was envisioning this to be something more along the lines of "1: controller does lots of damage to an enemy model. 2: opponent gets to perform a lesser attack against a figure of his choice." Needless to say, the first player could take steps to mitigate this drawback, such as by arranging his minis so that all the others are out of Dark Solar's LOS or range, but I think that allowing for this kind of play has precedence throughout comics. Another possible way to represent this duality (and to incentivize the first player to give Dark Solar targets) would be to have the opponent make the lesser attack FIRST, and then have the controller's attack get a power boost equal to the amount of damage that the first attack had, as Dark Solar is filled with remorse.



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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 11:05 pm
MortalPosts: 21Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:18 am
I like the level 3 hero/villain idea most. Especially because a box content with the old Solar and Stalker would not make much sense for all players who already own Solar from the starter but want to have Stalker. I mean, what should i do with 2 Solar minis. Guess in this case i would not buy this box just to own Stalker :(
But with the level 3 hero/villain idea and a new Solar sculpt plus Stalker in the box it would make sense for every player out there not just for a few!



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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:52 am
User avatarHeraldPosts: 288Location: Sydney AustraliaJoined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:14 am
My initial thoughts on the background...

I would like to see a Avatar of Jaguar to be a separate entity and have a physical form. He seeks to have the power of Ahau Kin for his own purposes. The Avatar of J once held the tiara and was consumed by its power and his spirit/will is trapped within it. Now another vessel - Johan has donned Ahau Kin and has given the Avatar the chance to seize the power of Ahau Kin for himself and go on another rampage.

Solar is subconsciously battling the presence of the Avatar within Ahau Kin and when the Avatar is dominant you have the entity that is Dark Solar a Hero/Villain. An unfettered force of nature who consumes all around him.

Maybe Solar can expel the Avatar from Ahau Kin and he is then a spirit that must possess another physical body to survive. In fact it possess Stalker and transforms jaguar into the physical manifestation of Avatar of the Jaguar - a humanoid jaguar in a Mayan headdress with wicked claws.

While in physical form Avatar stalks Solar and plans to take the Ahau Kin for himself or has the ability to jump back in to the Tiara and resume the battle for control. The Avatar knows that the power of Ahau Kin will ultimately consume the wearer (as it did him), and has over the years ridden other bearers until they turned to ash. He is frustrated by this fact but Johan the current bearer maybe strong enough to avoid this fate and this fact alone makes Johan more valuable alive to the Avatar. If the Avatar can control Johan... then the world would be next on his list.

The Avatar of Jaguar would ally if not be part of The Forgotten. The Forgotten want to harness the power of Ahua Kin for themselves or at least recruit a Mayan Sun God to their ranks. The Avatar sees them as a means to an ends.

Stalker is an ancient Mayan shaman who is a guardian guide to the possessor of the Ahau Kin. He hopes Johan will be the one who can control both the Avatar and the power of Ahau Kin or will he be like those before him consumed by the power of the sun.


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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 9:13 am
User avatarHeraldPosts: 725Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:25 pm
Hey, another one minute bash of thoughts:

I'd like to see Solar struggling between his good and evil side, here is how I see it:
Our good old caped crusader realizing the infinite power that the jaguar offers him will be tempted to use them. However they come with a cost...

He'd be granted thus a bunch of new exclusives :
power of the jaguar (passive):Solar can at anytime increase one of his rolls by X. Place X jaguar tokens on Solar's card. If at any moment, the number of Jaguar tokens is higher than Solar's health, Solar succumbs to the Jaguar and is controlled by the enemy til the number of jaguar tokens is lower than his health again.

Fighting the darkness within APX+1 (X being the number of times this action has already been performed earlier in the game): As long as Solar is not controlled by the Jaguar, he can try and fight this evil influence. Take off 1 jaguar token from Solar's card.


That way we could have some nice little twists during the game itself, with Solar turning evil at the critical moment, and bashing his very friend who wanted to give him back some Health.

What do you think?



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Pulp City collection (84,21% painted):
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 5:03 pm
User avatarMinister of PulpPosts: 2027Location: Street FightingJoined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:13 pm
Keep spilling more :twisted: I am listening.



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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 4:44 am
User avatarHeraldPosts: 288Location: Sydney AustraliaJoined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:14 am
I would like to see the Anatomy of a Level 3 (cmon spoil Dr T and Deadeye).

Dark Solar is different than other Level 3's as he does not have a team to provide bonuses too... so curious what a take on a a solo Level 3 would be.

I got some ideas... and I will try and flesh them out over the weekend.


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 8:59 pm
User avatarHeraldPosts: 725Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:25 pm
I've had a new plateload of thoughts about this whole "change the color of your spandex" business. Here's where I'm gotten so far.

We know that there is more than meets the eyes to the powers our german playboy is handling so far. He's only using the tip of the iceberg of these terrifying forces. Here rise a couple of questions:
1/What about his playboy life from "before"? Does he still enjoys it, or did he forsake everything by the second he put on the spandex?
2/What about his identity? It is yet unclear as if it is somehow secret or not.

In his present bg, our playboy's girlfriend plays quite a big role, and I thought it would be nice to bring her back as (one of) the triggers of the drastic changes he is undergoing.

Quote:
The dark thoughts hunting solar's mind are getting more and more numerous, darker and darker, but also clearer and clearer so as what the Jaguar demands from him, though our Knight in shining armor still refuses to accept this side of himself.

Then one day, as he is patrolling across town, he spots Jenny Vale, the woman he thought was lost for good. Or is he just dreaming? After days and nights running after this ghost, wondering if she is not a product of his feverish brain, the confrontation takes place (on top of a building, in the rain, and it is windy, and they both have omgwtf so awesome attitudes).

He could always push the voices in his head away, but Solar is hit at his only weak spot:his heart. He lays down his guard for the woman he still loves. But she is not really Jenny Vale anymore. After the temple's incident, she went back down these caves...something, someone, was calling for her, she could feel it in her bones. When she got out of there, she was changed for ever.
She embraced the power she was invested in during her journey at the temple, receiving these thousand years old magical powers. She now goes by the name... Stalker.

It was a matter of minutes before Solar's mental resistance was completely annihilated by the sorceress' mind power. She took over his conscience, setting the power of the Jaguar free from his bonds.

When Solar awoke from what seemed a very real-looking dreamed, he didn't realized what had happened right away. But soon, as he gathered himself, he understood, he felt that the events he had been though had changed him for ever. First, he was stronger, faster, more powerful. In one word, better. But he felt compelled by his new found instincts were to hard to resist, and he soon found himself abandoning one by one his old principles of life-saver and goodie-doer, for a reward greater, more pleasant than respect from his fellow countrymen : pleasure. Pleasure to obey the Beast inside, to sacrifice it all on the altar of the Jaguar

Stalker can be proud, it is only a matter of months, weeks maybe, before the resistance of Johann Sonnenbrandt is totally destroyed. Then would arise the most terrible killer of all : The Avatar of the Jaguar.


To make it clearer and less literary :
Stalker is a maya shaman (thanks Jim), whose soul, as the everlasting link between the Jaguar God and Earth longed for someone to possess to make the return of his master possible (and thus allow god knows what animal demigods like to do, but it must be really terrible). He put his hands on Jenny Vale, convincing/seducing her into thinking that his cause is right/profitable. He wants to get the Tiara back, which, as the magical vessel of his master, would make the return of the jaguar God complete.
So far, Jenny's personality is completely overruled by Stalker, but who knows, as he is focussing on his task, maybe the woman will prove tougher than she seems.
And our poor Solar? Well, as explained in my little story, he would constantly have to fight the Jaguar inside of him to stay himself, but more and more often, the Jaguar takes over...

HINT: oh, what a coincidence, and what if we decided to turn that into a campaign to see if the Jaguar really manages to come back?


Anyway, these are just some (long) thoughts, thanks for having read that far. :)



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Dr Red 26%
Dr Mercury 100%
Seabolt 12%
Dr Tenebrous 100%
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 11:36 am
User avatarMinister of PulpPosts: 2027Location: Street FightingJoined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:13 pm
I like that!
I have a meeting with Marek the artist today and we'll sit on some Avatar and Stalker sketches.



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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:18 pm
User avatarHeraldPosts: 725Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:25 pm
...so what's up with our sunboy?



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John S.'painting completion:
Dr Red 26%
Dr Mercury 100%
Seabolt 12%
Dr Tenebrous 100%
C.O.R.E. 100%

Pulp City collection (84,21% painted):
32* Supremes out of 38**
*incl. alt. Gentleman
**incl. Herald
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:26 pm
User avatarSidekickPosts: 97Location: Brunswick, MaineJoined: Tue May 19, 2009 6:41 pm
Sounds like some very fun stuff.

My only suggestion is for the "Solar Expansion Box" is that it be a three model box, with Avatar, Stalker and Dark Solar (Eclipse?). Basically, what Schlunz said.

Unless you have a 'new' regular Solar model to put in the box, perhaps one that's more 'in line' with the contents of the box.



Ooo, brainstorm: What if Aspect of Jaguar was the level 3 Hero/Villian?

So you have Solar, Champion of Light; Dark Solar, overcome with the power of the Ahau Kin (Moar Power!); Stalker, who is Solars guide in learning how to use the power gifted to him (and is neither good nor bad him/herself), and then Aspect of the Jaguar, which is Solar who found a balance with the power residing within him. And since Aspect isn't worried about good/bad, can be used on either team, depending on what mood suits him.

Aspect of Jaguar:
Image

(Basically solar with a jaguar head mask and Aztec garb)

Stalker:
Image

Thoughts?


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