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Efreet - to get you through the hard times!
http://forum.pulp-city.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=446
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Author:  Beermonkey [ Thu May 20, 2010 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Efreet - to get you through the hard times!

The good Doctor-Warlock is correct. If it has the Hero symbol any Hero rule applies. I know, I was the one that wrote that rule in the new book. The peril of being so flexible is that you suffer more penalties.

Author:  Doctor-Warlock [ Thu May 20, 2010 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Efreet - to get you through the hard times!

Beermonkey wrote:
The good Doctor-Warlock is correct.


It had to happen sometime! (and its just Warlock to my friends ;))

Beermonkey wrote:
If it has the Hero symbol any Hero rule applies.


Logical really.

Beermonkey wrote:
I know, I was the one that wrote that rule in the new book.


Big Head - ur just showing off now LoL!


Beermonkey wrote:
The peril of being so flexible is that you suffer more penalties.


Sort of like being a "Jack of all Trades, and Master of None" . . . . . .

Author:  pulpcitizen [ Thu May 20, 2010 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Efreet - to get you through the hard times!

Doctor-Warlock wrote:
My take it it is a simple one, they have a "Hero" symbol on the Card - therefore Hero restrictions should apply.



Oh agreed. Just look at Morf's post:

Morf wrote:
Yes, funny enough Heroes only Villains may target him with ANY Actions when in the Malcolm form. He is a pretty potent sorcer on his own.


Then there are two likely possiblities:

1. Only Villains may target X (X being Malcolm in this case)

2. Heroes may not target X


It is not likely that both statements will be used. Referring back to Morf's earlier post (and there is plenty of time for the rule to change since the model is nowhere near on the horizon), then if option 1 is followed Hero/Villains could target X, whereas option 2 precludes this, yet on the surface both rules point in similar directions. :)

Author:  Doctor-Warlock [ Thu May 20, 2010 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Efreet - to get you through the hard times!

I SUPPOSE you could also use the further logic that both symbols "cancel each other out" too.

BUT in a "Hero's" Team, surely the intention was that such "dual" characters count as Hero's (and Villains in a Villains Team) - if that is indeed the Case then by proxy they couldn't target the Kid anyway as they are "Hero's" by association!.

Author:  pulpcitizen [ Thu May 20, 2010 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Efreet - to get you through the hard times!

Doctor-Warlock wrote:
I SUPPOSE you could also use the further logic that both symbols "cancel each other out" too.

BUT in a "Hero's" Team, surely the intention was that such "dual" characters count as Hero's (and Villains in a Villains Team) - if that is indeed the Case then by proxy they couldn't target the Kid anyway as they are "Hero's" by association!.


Don't forget that when Vector, Guerilla or Father Oak side with Heroes they don't suddenly overcome their past questionable deeds or become purely heroic (please note the little 'h'); they still have something about them that means they are not purely 'white hats'.

Also, the game is not only about Heroes vs. Villains. Heroes can also fight Heroes, Villains can fight Villains, and that has been there since the inception of the game. Moreover, some characters (Hero/Villains) will side with one faction or another (Hero or Villain) for their own reasons which may not be wholly noble or nefarious.

I like the three distinctions (Hero, Villain, Hero/Villain), since there are advantages and disadvantages for each, even if there are two primary Factions.

Author:  dboeren [ Thu May 20, 2010 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Efreet - to get you through the hard times!

If Beermonkey says that it won't be that much of a restriction then that satisfies me, however the fine details turn out to work. I just wanted to point out that near-total immunity to a wide range of models has the potential to cause problems so you want to be real careful with that sort of thing.

Author:  Doctor-Warlock [ Thu May 20, 2010 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Efreet - to get you through the hard times!

leonmallett wrote:
Also, the game is not only about Heroes vs. Villains. Heroes can also fight Heroes, Villains can fight Villains, and that has been there since the inception of the game. Moreover, some characters (Hero/Villains) will side with one faction or another (Hero or Villain) for their own reasons which may not be wholly noble or nefarious.


That doesn't really apply to this, as Malcolm/Efreet is (are?) a Villain (s).

The point of contention is can a dual Hero/Villain character target Malcolm or not, not who can fight who!?!?!?!

If you want to get into a "roleplay" discussion about it - a Hero/Villain in a Hero Team WOULDN'T be able to target Malcolm (I assume the reasoning is that a "Good Guy" wouldn't attack a small boy) because SURELY the rest of the Hero's in the Team would have serious issue with it!

Author:  dboeren [ Thu May 20, 2010 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Efreet - to get you through the hard times!

Jade Hawk (at least in the Supreme Genesis version) had an ability that they hit harder ( :STR bonus) when other members of the team were not within X inches, with the explanation that they did not approve of Hawk's excessive brutality.

Author:  Doctor-Warlock [ Thu May 20, 2010 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Efreet - to get you through the hard times!

This is the first rule I have encountered that seems "vague" to be honest!

Author:  pulpcitizen [ Fri May 21, 2010 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Efreet - to get you through the hard times!

Doctor-Warlock wrote:
That doesn't really apply to this, as Malcolm/Efreet is (are?) a Villain (s).


Not an issue: Heroes can target Villains; Villains can target Villains - in general terms. Some models may have special rules (as part of actions, Team Powers etc) that modify this.

Quote:
The point of contention is can a dual Hero/Villain character target Malcolm or not, not who can fight who!?!?!?!


I was trying to offer a wider analogy. As to whetehr Malcolm can be targeted - we won't know until the wording of his rule is clear.

If the the wording is something like:

    Only Villains may target Malcolm
Then Hero/Villains could target Malcolm, since they fulfill the Villain criteria.

If the the wording is something like:
    Heroes may not target Malcolm
Then Hero/Villians could not target Malcolm since they fulfill the Hero criteria.

Quote:
If you want to get into a "roleplay" discussion about it - a Hero/Villain in a Hero Team WOULDN'T be able to target Malcolm (I assume the reasoning is that a "Good Guy" wouldn't attack a small boy) because SURELY the rest of the Hero's in the Team would have serious issue with it!


I was trying to offer a different rationale, not a rules-legal argument. see above for that. :)

I say rules-legal: we don't even know what the rule will be at this time; Morf has only alluded to it and so only time will tell on the final wording.

Author:  pulpcitizen [ Fri May 21, 2010 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Efreet - to get you through the hard times!

Doctor-Warlock wrote:
This is the first rule I have encountered that seems "vague" to be honest!


The rule is not vague becuse it isn't in play yet - until we know the precise wording, then the interactions remain unknown. :)

Author:  Morf [ Fri May 21, 2010 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Efreet - to get you through the hard times!

I don't remember exact wording (he is still in works) but ultimately once you are a Villain, you can go for it.
Also - mind the wording "may not target". There is a lot of things that don't target but still hurt 8)

Author:  rgtriplec [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Efreet - to get you through the hard times!

So did these guys ever get released?

Author:  Beermonkey [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Efreet - to get you through the hard times!

Not yet. They are on the short list of soon to be released. We're doing some final play tests with them now.

Author:  dboeren [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Efreet - to get you through the hard times!

Good to know, I really like the Forgotten so I'm hoping to see stats for these guys soon :)

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