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<  Hero/Villain Tactics  ~  SILVERAGER LVL 2 SCIENCE

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:57 am
User avatarGuardian of PulpPosts: 4526Location: House of Jade LanternsJoined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:16 am
Pickles wrote:
I really enjoyed this report & the ohter ones.


"Silverager sought to intervene, using Apecraft to repair Apebot, before Dr Mercury moved forwards, while Howler?s Gun Bravado clipped Dr Mercury, although Chronin again survived unhurt."

I do not think this is allowed as Apebot is immune to :MND being a construct. (I cannot see much use for Apecraft at all)


You are right of course that we shouldn't have used Apecraft on Abebot.

As for viable targets - outside of an all-ARC team: Lady Cyburn, Dr. Mercury, Androida, Vector are all good candidates.



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:42 pm
User avatarHeroPosts: 153Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:44 pm
3 of those are at least as smart as Silverager so they are not great subjects. It seems poor & feels like a glitch that it doesn't fix Apebot.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:05 pm
User avatarGuardian of PulpPosts: 4526Location: House of Jade LanternsJoined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:16 am
Cardboardvampire made a great point about Immune/ :MND , but his post seems to have disappeared, so following on from that, I need to reverse my previous position (blame tiredness and a poor night sleep! - mea culpa).

Apecraft reverses the Damage dealing aspect of the Opposed Roll:

Quote:
Apecraft may target only Mechanical models. Friendly models recover Damage instead of suffering Damage (up to their maximum).


Since the Opposed Roll inflicts Damage (which is not stopped per Immune/ :MND ), then arguably that effect remains, it is simply reversed to become recovery instead of Damage suffered. Now that is a little woolly and open to interpretation (and therefore disagreement!) given the wording, which is probbaly not as explicit as should be ideal, but we do our best as far as possible to try and catch these issues - not always wholly successfully though.

Over to Devon or Bob for their thoughts. Interesting debate though, and thanks to Pickles for stimulating it. (and one I may move to the Silverager thread if I can).



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:44 pm
User avatarImmortalPosts: 1161Location: Montreal, CanadaJoined: Tue May 12, 2009 4:23 am
Oops... I thought I deleted that fast enough...

I deleted it because it was probably wrong. I don't have acess to my rulebook during the day, but based on Morf's road to pulp city post on skills you can read the following:


Immune/ :MND Immunity to :MND is an exception to the Immunity rule. Whenever targeted or affected by a :MND based Action, the model ignores of all of the Action?s effects (benefits or/and harmful effects) but it still suffers Damage from it. :MND based Actions that deal no Damage do not affect these models at all.


So, since the power, when targeting an ally, deals no damage, I assumed it was ignored, thus my point wasn't actually necesarily accurate.

I think...


Edit: That said, it would be nice if it worked on Apebot. As it is, Silverager is cool, but a little too prone to spamming spinebreaker.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:19 am
User avatarGuardian of PulpPosts: 2139Location: Maine U.S.A.Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:52 am
Exactly the same problem exist with Supreme Zed and Sanguine. Zed's Immune/ :MND prevents him from being healed and is therefore of much more limited use. I did try and bring this up to Morf during playtests but nothing was resolved or I think we decided that Zed at least was powerful enough to not need healing. I think we can look at this stuff again. It COULD be argued that Damage can be positive or negative thus abilities like Apecraft deal NEGATIVE Damage, thus would be allowed event if a model is Immune/ :MND . This is still up for debate but as it stands Healing is not an official game term. We'll have to discuss this further.



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:18 pm
User avatarImmortalPosts: 1161Location: Montreal, CanadaJoined: Tue May 12, 2009 4:23 am
I was thinking about this last night and your Supreme Zed point is leading me further in the same direction.

I'm not sure that the situation with Apebot and Supreme Zed needs to be fixed.

With Supreme Zed, you're getting one of the most powerful supremes in the game with an already impressive health bar. Do we actually want him to be healed? From a game balance point of view, while he's certainly not invulnerable, he's already hard to take down.

For Apebot, if you look at it with the whole team in mind, which is the only way it really works, you'd be making a mistake not to have Virus. Virus already has a fix power and if you wanted further safety, you could always carry spare parts for more healing. Apebot is a highly destructive level 2 and do you really want players to be able to repair him for 6 points every round?

If the goal is to make Silverager into less of a spinebreaker/strike/strike/strike model, tweaking Apecraft is a good way to do it but rather then change it to include abebot, perhaps tweak it so that it'll actually prove more threatning to mechanical supremes instead.

Anyway, I just wanted to share my thoughts on the matter. I have no doubt that if changes will be made, they'll be done with full consideration of all the variables.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:13 pm
MortalPosts: 45Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:56 pm
A quick question regarding Silverager's 'Anger' levels. Doe he get angry when friendly minions die in his LoS? The card just says 'friendly model'. It came up in a game last night and we played that he does, but the whole card of minions has to be wiped out.

Just curious as it seems an easy way to make him angry.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:36 pm
User avatarGuardian of PulpPosts: 4526Location: House of Jade LanternsJoined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:16 am
Dangerousbeans wrote:
A quick question regarding Silverager's 'Anger' levels. Doe he get angry when friendly minions die in his LoS? The card just says 'friendly model'. It came up in a game last night and we played that he does, but the whole card of minions has to be wiped out.

Just curious as it seems an easy way to make him angry.


It is model rather than card; his Rage is a mixed blessing - more :STR Damage, but much reduced :DEF protection, so to avoid it or invite it, consider choices accordingly! :)

Hope that helps. :)



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